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Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby Doc152 » February 24th, 2016, 5:46 pm

F0LLETT wrote:Yes. If your messing and tweaking. Then I think its unfair. I chose to mess and tweak. So its my problem if it doesn't boot. Seems everyone wants to do things without risk.
I think you will also, its not as clear and cut as you say. Different countries will have different rules. Its a shame this day and age.


I'm the type who will tinker regardless of any warranty, or lack of. However if my tinkering didn't cause a hardware error, the directive is pretty clear, and we've had a few cases already here in Sweden where the end user won. EU commerce laws trump national commerce laws, period. Of course, i don't agree with the fact that this will be abused to an insane level, and already being abused to some extent. But in the grand scheme of things, i think its a positive direction.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby F0LLETT » February 24th, 2016, 8:41 pm

Doc152 wrote:
F0LLETT wrote:Yes. If your messing and tweaking. Then I think its unfair. I chose to mess and tweak. So its my problem if it doesn't boot. Seems everyone wants to do things without risk.
I think you will also, its not as clear and cut as you say. Different countries will have different rules. Its a shame this day and age.


I'm the type who will tinker regardless of any warranty, or lack of. However if my tinkering didn't cause a hardware error, the directive is pretty clear, and we've had a few cases already here in Sweden where the end user won. EU commerce laws trump national commerce laws, period. Of course, i don't agree with the fact that this will be abused to an insane level, and already being abused to some extent. But in the grand scheme of things, i think its a positive direction.


Im glad you said the last bit, as smaller companies will get hammered by this type of thing. They cant afford to accept returns on the scale the big boys can. The other problem is, it makes people think, no problem I will get it replaced. This is what the world is coming to, as I look at it from both angles.
The other way to look at it, you flash your PC bios, and it screws up, is the motherboard manufacturer responsible. Answer is no, regardless of the hardware state. This is why I see this law as unfair from a business point of view.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby Doc152 » February 24th, 2016, 9:24 pm

F0LLETT wrote:
Doc152 wrote:
F0LLETT wrote:Yes. If your messing and tweaking. Then I think its unfair. I chose to mess and tweak. So its my problem if it doesn't boot. Seems everyone wants to do things without risk.
I think you will also, its not as clear and cut as you say. Different countries will have different rules. Its a shame this day and age.


I'm the type who will tinker regardless of any warranty, or lack of. However if my tinkering didn't cause a hardware error, the directive is pretty clear, and we've had a few cases already here in Sweden where the end user won. EU commerce laws trump national commerce laws, period. Of course, i don't agree with the fact that this will be abused to an insane level, and already being abused to some extent. But in the grand scheme of things, i think its a positive direction.


Im glad you said the last bit, as smaller companies will get hammered by this type of thing. They cant afford to accept returns on the scale the big boys can. The other problem is, it makes people think, no problem I will get it replaced. This is what the world is coming to, as I look at it from both angles.
The other way to look at it, you flash your PC bios, and it screws up, is the motherboard manufacturer responsible. Answer is no, regardless of the hardware state. This is why I see this law as unfair from a business point of view.


I would argue that a bios misflash is a hardware error as it usually cannot be recovered without a physical repair. At the very least you need to reprogram the bios chip which requires desoldering it from the board. Once you screw it up beyong jtag, its a hardware issue.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby Billaboard » February 28th, 2016, 12:33 pm

I haven't approached Linx yet, but the current situation appears totally unacceptable.

My Linx10 runs a wimboot version of Windows 8.1 that uses a compressed file system to provide sensible usable space.

The machine, left on its own, attempts to install an uncompressed Windows 10. I have on 3 occasions just caught it in time, and have now been forced to disable all updates rather than try to make my podgy fingers enable and disable those which are acceptable and those which are not.
Without disabling completely the "Upgrade to Windows 10" re enables itself every time I start the machine.

I dislike Windows 8.1 intensely on tablet and on laptops, although I like my Windows 8.1 phone that works well.

If Windows 10 is better on a 10" tablet than Windows 8.1, Linx should either provide a downloadable and installable wimboot image file for Windows 10, or at the very least provide a straightforward patch to permanently remove and disable the intrusive Windows 10 Microsoft upgrade.

I'd be interested if anyone could correct any of my assumptions here as, at the moment, I'm finding the Linx not fit for purpose.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby F0LLETT » February 28th, 2016, 1:11 pm

Billaboard wrote:I haven't approached Linx yet, but the current situation appears totally unacceptable.

My Linx10 runs a wimboot version of Windows 8.1 that uses a compressed file system to provide sensible usable space.

The machine, left on its own, attempts to install an uncompressed Windows 10. I have on 3 occasions just caught it in time, and have now been forced to disable all updates rather than try to make my podgy fingers enable and disable those which are acceptable and those which are not.
Without disabling completely the "Upgrade to Windows 10" re enables itself every time I start the machine.

I dislike Windows 8.1 intensely on tablet and on laptops, although I like my Windows 8.1 phone that works well.

If Windows 10 is better on a 10" tablet than Windows 8.1, Linx should either provide a downloadable and installable wimboot image file for Windows 10, or at the very least provide a straightforward patch to permanently remove and disable the intrusive Windows 10 Microsoft upgrade.

I'd be interested if anyone could correct any of my assumptions here as, at the moment, I'm finding the Linx not fit for purpose.


The device has 32GB of storage. So either you have it filled with old temp files etc etc or you have install lots of stuff to fill it up.
Have you tried refreshing, wiping out everything and then do a windows update. As a refresh you should have atleast 20GB of space.
It has to uncompress the install.wim before it can install it.
You should also bare in mind that some things may not work correctly after update. You may have to take steps to rectify those issues.

How much space do you actually have and have you tried drive clean up?
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby Billaboard » February 28th, 2016, 3:43 pm

At the moment with the compressed version of Windows, I have about 15GB free, and have a separate 32GB SD card. The recovery partition (compressed Windows) is 4.88GB.
My W10 laptop has an uncompressed Windows directory of 16.1 GB and total used space on the C: partition of 52.4 GB.

Both machines have hardly been used (I've reverted to W7 on all the main machines because the uncontrollable updates on W10 have been affecting my work) and Disk Cleanup just produces a few MB that could be saved on each machine.

I do use Android tablets with similar or less space, but they are running a tablet type OS as opposed to a desktop OS in the Linx.

I'm reasonably happy with the Linx with updates disabled, but it is certainly not recommended or ideal, and an upgrade that takes an extra 10GB from a 32GB drive is not where I want to go.

The point is that it ought to be possible for the manufacturer to produce a straightforward upgrade to a compressed W10 and supply this, maybe for a small charge. And, much worse, Microsoft should not be pushing W10 automatically onto small machines in a different format.

I have 3 "failed W10" updates sitting in my Update History file. It was just luck that I was by the machine when I saw the update start each time, even though I had unticked the subtly hidden W10 update earlier.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby F0LLETT » February 28th, 2016, 8:21 pm

OK, so your linx has a properly enabled recovery partition. My Vision didn't it just used the Windows default recovery 450MB.
Have you tried downloading the official microsoft image tool and installing from USB stick. The official image will only be 3.5GB tops.

Also do not forget the windows restore cleanup. If its enabled you can also op to remove them as they can take up lots of space.
I also find manually going to the temp folders and emptying them can help.

If I had the same linx as you, I would have created a clean install ISO for you. So you can install fresh with full amount of HDD.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby Billaboard » February 28th, 2016, 11:05 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I might try to build a W10 wimboot recovery partition and see how I get on. I'm familiar with taking images of machines, so I can take an image of the machine as-is then probably build a complete "proper" install and see how I get on, but I'll have to spend some time reading up and trying all that.

If I can do that successfully (and I obviously don't know yet), that makes it even more odd that the manufacturer can't do the same. The main culprit is still Microsoft- pushing a non-compressed OS to a machine designed for a compressed system.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby F0LLETT » February 29th, 2016, 12:25 am

Microsoft wouldn't do that. My PC update was only 7-8GB (Im using PRO). Something else is going on, you using PRO or HOME.

I would not mess with recovery, taking the boot.wim is alot different from just downloading the official installer to USB stick.
What I was trying to get at, the USB STICK is seen as a clean installer. However it will work like an updater too. Just run the installer from windows and see what happens. I think the main problem you have is your current install. Its using so much space, that it will screw it up as it keeps the old OS incase you want to go back. I still think a refresh this pc is the way to go, wiping everyhing. See how much space you have then, then use the USB installer (you may have to update 8.1 all the way). If all goes well, then you can use disk cleanup to remove old OS folder.
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Re: Exertis/Linx's Stance On Windows 10

Postby Billaboard » February 29th, 2016, 1:53 pm

Thanks again, Follett. I'm not sure I have time at the moment to mess with the tablet, as I'd be making notes as I went along and taking images at every stage possible. So for now I'll leave it as is with updates blocked.

The forced update on W10 is in any case one of the 2 or 3 deal breakers on the laptops that have pushed me back to W7 (and Linux).

I run Pro on all machines here with the exception, of course, of the Linx.

As I understand it, and I was for ages an active member of the Insider program, Microsoft are pushing the update onto tablets of this type, and the update is an uncompressed version which, at a minimum, is almost double the size of the 8.1 compressed OS.

Thanks again for the help, which I have taken note of.
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